A little while back I wrote about how we’d started researching Beanie’s pedigree to find out where she gets her looks and athleticism from.
It all started because of a lady we know in our park that used to breed Beagles many years ago. Right from when Beanie was a tiny pup she’s always told us that she looks exactly like her first Beagle and that she was just one generation removed from a pack Beagle. She told us that Beanie would look right at home in a pack of English pack Beagles.
We traced back down Beanie’s mothers line right back to Eton College Beagles (A pack of working Beagles):
Newlin Kelsey (2001)
Newlin Yazz (1994)
Newlin Nonsense (1990)
Newlin Opium (1983)
Norcis Roxanne At Newlin (1980)
Norcis Hannah (1974)
Korwin Rachel (1972)
Korwin Laura (1969)
Sweet Selina (1965)
Pippa or Lairfad (?)
Rossut Midget
Rossut Fashion (1960)
Rossut Variant (1958)
Virtuoso
Veronesse
Eton College Viper (1951)
Eton College Vigilant (1944)
I looked at pictures of Eton College Beagles and some have a very similar build to Beanie. Yesterday we bumped into our breeder friend in the park and I told her what I’d discovered. Oh she said, Eton College Viper was my little girl’s mum! Talk about a small world. So this little bitch from the 50’s that looks exactly like Beanie was in fact a relative of hers!!! I’m hoping to get a picture tomorrow to see just how similar they look (I’ll post it up as soon as I get it).
We went to vist Eleanor from Norcis Beagles today and I’ve got a picture of Korwin Rachel (1972) and all of the bitches in the line after this. There hasn’t really been much change in the appearance of the Norcis/Newlin Beagles during that time. Hopefully I’ll soon have a photo of Eton college Viper’s daughter from the early 50’s – the daughter of an original working Beagle that supposedly looks just like Beanie.
So it seems that in this particular line the change from working Beagle to the current day look took less than 20 years. Pat Sutton (daughter of Rossut Beagles owners) told me that Rossut Variant (like all the pack beagles) was very different from todays beagles – much smaller, finer boned and with longer legs and a pointier snout. And our breeder friend from the park told us that the Rossut’s imported Beagles from America with shorter legs, stockier bodies and squarer snouts.
So it would seem that the change took place over just a few years. Certainly between 1958 and 1972, and taking no more than 6 generations!!!
We’re quite excited about the idea that we’ve got a traditional pack Beagle (genetically speaking of course). Albeit a pampered, pretty pack Beagle that only knows how to hunt socks and knickers!)
hope you enjoyed your visit to Frank and Eleanor,she is a very informatant person about beagle lines,in fact that is where my 1st beagles came from.Very interested in your follow back to the original beagles in your line,would love to see it in a family tree set up.If you also look back you shall find that not so many years ago,maybe 60ish years ago you would be lucky to see a pet beagle as most of them belonged to packs.
She was a fantastic help! Everyone we’ve approached has been. Even the archivist from Eton College has managed to find us information on Beanie’s relatives. I think our friend from the park is going to provide a lot of useful info and documents because she was actually breeding at that time and remembers all of the early breeders.
We’re also looking down Beanie’s dad’s side (Redcap Renaissance), and can trace back to the pack beagles on that side too. Haven’t got as far as contacting anyone that might remember them yet though. In actual fact it seems that Beanie gets more of her looks and abilities from that side. Have you seen her dad Sheriff? Apparantly her granny Pebbles was, and still is, quite an athlete. At 13 years old she’s apparantly still faster than most of the youngsters and as a young dog she used to do drag hunting and could run a drag twice in the time it took the others to run it once. So we’re hoping that Beanie will live up to her reputation!
I’m putting all the info into a family tree generator, including pictures and will figure out how to publish it when it’s more complete. The trouble is, because it goes back so far it’s getting pretty big!
The thing that puzzles me is that I was told that it was the import of American Beagles that changed the Beagle from a more slender, lankier dog to today’s version. But given that the American Beagles came from the same roots as our Beagles how did THEY get their shorter legs and chunkier bodies?
Guess what? Tess and Beanie are related back to Korwin Laura 6 generations back in Tess’s line.
Hi Louise – small world! Although I expect lots of local Beagles are as they’ll all come from the same roots.
If she’s related to Korwin Laura, then she goes right back to Eton College Viper too! So she’s also related to Toby the Spaniel’s mum’s first little Beagle Cinders!
She is SO interesting to talk to as she knows loads about the evolution of Beagles from the working Beagle. So next time you see her get her talking about it!
Some more interesting things that she mentioned today (hasn’t found the piccy yet and forgot to bring the book and pedigree)…
She said that packs in different parts of the country looked very different as they were bred to suit the terrain they had to hunt in. She felt that short legged Beagles couldn’t really hunt on rough, ploughed land as they’d put their shoulders out. So the tall, 16 inch Beagles (like Beanie) were probably bred to hunt in rough ground.
Now as Beagles were followed by people on foot the 16 inch Beagles were too fast on flat land. So in these parts of the country 13 inch Beagles were more popular.
I asked her how the American Beagles (the ones that were brought over here to create today’s look) got short legged and stocky if they came from the same roots as our Beagles. She thought probably just be breeding small stocky dogs with larger dogs.
It’s all very interesting stuff though isn’t it!
In case anyone else doesn’t know about it there’s a pedigree database here to get you started:
http://www.worldpedigrees.com
Hi,
Sophie and I are back from hols, she seemed to love the kennels but is loving being back on the couch more.
I checked out Sophie’s using that fab website and on her mothers side she too has Eton college Villager, Valiant, Vagabond, Lavish and Larkspur.
Hopefully see you tomorrow
Hazel